Dear God, I Kinda Think You're A Sadist. (LJ Idol entry #5)

[crysthewolf]

--I've posted this on Myspace recently for the sake of a friend of mine who's been asking me about my beliefs, but it's basically a repeat of several things I've already said before about religion.  If you've already heard those rants, feel free to ignore this post.  ;) By the way, all anon comments are screened.--

So I was standing in my shower this morning and I was thinking. To be honest, the shower is where I do quite a lot of my thinking and, to be more honest, I do a lot of my thinking out loud. I think that my neighbors, if they're home during the day when I shower, probably think that I'm quite the schitzophrenic, but there you have it.

While I was thinking in my shower, I got to considering my friend Katie's offer to come watch her sing at the Liederkranz, which is a German club we discovered via our show-choir director when we were in High School. Katie and her sister Sarah and I were in the choir together when we were kids and a couple of Christmases ago we got together to go see Mrs. Chandler at the Liederkranz while her women's choir sang. True to form, Mrs. Chandler asked the three of us to join the choir. Katie and Sarah did. I declined.

I declined for two reasons. For one, I didn't (and don't, really) have reliable transportation, and to me, a choir is a serious responsibility. Hey, I'm an unemployed vocalist. I have to take SOMETHING seriously. ;) I didn't want to commit to Mrs. Chandler's (still can't call her Loesje) choir unless I knew I could get there, and I really didn't.

But that was really only a cover reason. My deep-down reason is that when we were in the high school choirs together, Katie, Sarah, and I were almost ALWAYS at the DEAD CENTER of DRAAAAMA. Hell, most of the time it was between the three of us. There was always a boy, or a music competition, or a worship team, or something. The three of us were in the same Bible study together... and, for lack of a better term, in the same witch-hunting-demon-slaying cult together (oh yes, my sordid past is quite a long and intriguing story. ;) )... which made for that much MORE drama.

I'd been free of that cult for several years and was on my way out of Christianity, and I figured that getting into a choir with the two of them again would probably be bad for my sanity.

So, today, I was thinking about the possibility of seeing Mrs. Chandler again, now, Pagan and Proud. Mrs. Chandler is a good lady, despite being the queen of guilt trips. ;) She's also a Christian lady, and wholeheartedly - at least as far as I know - committed to her church. Now granted, Mrs. Chandler was one of the first people to alert me to the fact that I was IN A CULT when I was in high school (the witch-hunting-demon-slayers.  It sounds like a metal band, doesn't it?) But I think that even though she wanted to see me get out of THAT... she would still have liked to have seen me stay in church in GENERAL.  As much as I respect Mrs. Chandler, and even nowadays Katie and Sarah, I couldn't bring myself to do that. And while I was in the shower, thinking about Mrs. Chandler's questions and concerns, I got thinking about how I would explain that to her.

I don't have any major beef with Christianity. At least, that is to say, I don't have a lot of major beef with Christianity that I don't have with any other given religion, and frankly not every Christian adheres to the things that I have beef with. So why couldn't I just be a Christian who doesn't adhere to those things? Well, because I've done a lot of reading, a lot of thinking, and a lot of praying, and I don't see any reason to believe in and worship Yahweh and Yeshua above any other creature that's told me through various prophets and sacred texts that it's the one true creator of the universe... and, as I understand it, that's what Christianity is asking for as one of its most basic tenets. And, to be fair, I don't see anything wrong with people DOING that if its what they choose... but being that I've never quite fit well into any given church (I don't do groups well) and that I fit in with and am far more drawn to the rituals and rites of modern Paganism, I didn't see a particular reason to choose it.

I don't have a problem with being ASKED to believe a particular thing that I don't have a definitive reason to believe is true above other things which may be true. I may decline the invitation, but I don't necessarily have a problem with it. I do have a problem with being COMMANDED to do it.

This is where myself and many adherents to the Yahweh-God tend to part ways. I can believe in the possibility of a God. I can also believe in the possibility of a rainbow snake who slithered around the whole world making valleys and mountains and then woke up water-filled frogs to burp into all of the oceans and lakes and rivers (honestly one of my FAVORITE creation myths. ;) Yeah, I know, I'm weird, but who DOESN'T love burping frogs? I mean really??? ) But I can't believe that a Universal Creator who has control of everything but doesn't make an effort to make his story more believable than any other (aside from letting the folks at the Inquisition get ahold of it and do the whole "BELIEVE THIS OR DIE!" thing), can be both loving and exclusivistic. by that I mean that if you're going to say "You have to believe in me, worship me only, and follow a lot of rules that don't always make sense or I'm sending you to Hell/letting you die/throwing you into a lake of fire," you have to give me something a little more substantial than a 1700 year old book written in four dead languages compiled by a politically oriented culture that had a habit of conquering the cultures around it and slaughtering anyone who disagreed with it.

Once again, I don't have a problem with folks believing this, or even with them believing that I'm going to Hell. I mean I think it's a shame that they think that, what with the fact that it probably makes a good number of them sad (although the fact that it makes some of them HAPPY is a little unnerving too)... but I don't take offense at it. *shrug* People believe what they need to believe for whatever reasons they need to believe it. I can't judge that... unless what they believe is that not only is it ok, but PERTINENT that they condemn me for not agreeing with them. Then I'm obligated to dislike them personally.

But I guess thats my thing. If you're going to tell me I'm going to Hell for not believing in you, and then play a big game of cosmic hide-and-seek where the winner gets my soul... I gotta say, I kinda think you're a sadist.

I'm Pagan. When you boil it down, to me, that means I don't "believe" anything. I have stories that I love that may or may not be true. I have rituals that I perform that may or may not affect changes that I want to see in my life, but they're changes in MY life. I put my energy and my belief into those things, but I don't consider them essential. I don't curse people and I don't perform rituals with them in mind without asking them first (although I'll light candles for folks and send a little positive energy their way because to me that's just like passive praying. Good vibes are good vibes, and I'm not going to be particular. ;) ) If a particular God starts getting grabby with me, I tend to walk away from him or her. If a particular group starts getting exclusive, I tend to avoid them. That's just me*. I don't require folks to follow my windey path 'cause it's my windey path and I'm no smarter than they are.

I respect a lot of people and I respect a lot of beliefs. But I tend to think that people are either beautiful people or ugly people dependent upon how they behave toward one another and themselves. I know a lot of beautiful people. Some of them are Christians (Catholic or Protestant). Some of them are Pagan and some of them are Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist.

I guess if I'm going to "do unto others as I would have done unto me"... I can't really be exclusive either. ;)

Love,
Crystal

*Dear Bob I am the Shane** of religions. =O
**"L Word" reference.

Comments

[shadowwolf13]

Very interesting post! I like how you covered everything. I don't agree with everything but that's me. ;)

Great post.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

That's a good sign! It means you're an independant thinker. ;) :) =D

[lilmissmagic71.livejournal.com]

Well said, and honestly one of the loveliest sentiments I've read recently! Great job!

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

Thank you thank you. :)

[jenandbronze.livejournal.com]

" I do have a problem with being COMMANDED to do it." Hear! hear! I rather learn from any and all different beliefs, but I wouldn't want people pushing me to be a part of their religion... Great job on the thought-provoking post.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

=) I'm glad it was thought-provoking!! Thanks. =D

[brightflashes.livejournal.com]

What a thoughtful message. I wish more people thought like you! Spread your attitude everywhere you go, seriously. :)

Oh, and excellent entry!

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much. :) It's responses like this that I find INCREDIBLY reassuring, since I've been told by old friends and family members who are still Christians that I only say these things because I'm angry and that I'm saying things that are hateful. I try my damndest to be respectful but still share my point of view.

I figure that if people are interested in sharing their opinions then they ought to be willing to suffer the opinions of others, but not everyone works that way.

[caersidi.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing about your beliefs. Felt you expressed yourself well on a subject that can be quite controversial.

I can't imagine what it is like to come to Paganism from Christianity though I do have an aunt who has become Born Again and I am certain she thinks I am hell bound.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

It tends to make you even more sad for people in your aunt's position... because they honestly hurt themselves more than they hurt anyone else.

[caninespirit.livejournal.com]

we need more people who think openly like tis. Really the world does! Sometimes i feel like this little island when people ask me about my beleifs, i tell them, they don't agree and I'm ok with that. They don't know what to do. While i won't be3 openly hostile or even unfriendly to someone whose relition teaches them that i will burn in hell because i don't believe in and worshop their god, I'm not gonna hand around them much either. There's something in that that puts a wee bit of strain on a relationship.

Thanks for saying this and saying it well.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

"There's something in that that puts a wee bit of strain on a relationship. "

*sigh* yeah. Unfortunately this very true. I had a few really close friends when I was a Christian and while they still give me the time of day, their thoughts on my change of beliefs has been a MAJOR strain on our relationships.

[solstice-singer.livejournal.com]

So many of the reasons you've written here are the very same reasons that drew me away from Christianity. I don't like being commanded to believe something, and I don't like to be threatened into believing it. I don't like to have to feel guilty for every little thing I do.

Like you, I don't see anything wrong with people choosing to follow the path of Christianity. I just want them to respect my path, as I respect theirs, and stop pressuring me.

As for going to Hell, I don't have much comment to that. I usually just tell them that I don't think I can go to Hell, since it's a Christian myth.

Great entry. Sorry for rambling at you.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

Always feel free to ramble on my LJ. My LJ is ramble-central. ;)

Yeah, I always hate using the "it's a Christian myth" line though because I always get in response (sometimes from my own past-Christian-self), "You not believing in it doesn't make it not real." And my response of "And you BELIEVING in it doesn't make it REAL," only makes the argument endless.

But I get where you're coming from.

[walkertxkitty.livejournal.com]

I can understand where you've been and where you're going to some extent. I never did have a beef with Christianity, it just didn't fit my needs. The path I'm currently on does. As long as people can respect that, as long as their actions speak of the value of their souls, then we're good. I judge on actions. There are good people and there are bad people. The bad ones use the excuse of religion for their behaviors and would just as likely find something else if that weren't available.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

*nods* exactly.

[finding_helena]

I really enjoyed this entry. I actually am a Christian myself but despite that I identify with several of your gripes about Christianity. I don't like the idea that the only way to get to God is through Jesus. It's certainly one way, but just because I've chosen it myself doesn't mean it's the only one. Your entry also put a fresh spin on paganism for me and I'm glad I had the chance to read your perspective. Thanks for writing this.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I actually have a lot of friends who are Christians and I totally respect their points of view, Christianity just doesn't suit me. I also, though, unfortunately, have a couple of family members and several critics who judge me based on my beliefs. And not in the "you're going to Hell" way... in the "All your points of view on this subject are stupid and you just haven't studied enough/don't know enough to know that Christianity is REALLY right for EVERYONE. You're not a Christian because you're unintelligent/amoral/angry/insert-your-favorite-slam-here."

And people don't seem to realize that that's judgmental, but it is.

[elderwoodpixie.livejournal.com]

you have to give me something a little more substantial than a 1700 year old book written in four dead languages compiled by a politically oriented culture that had a habit of conquering the cultures around it and slaughtering anyone who disagreed with it.


What you said!

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

That's probably the first thing that REALLY clicked in my mind when I was still a Christian, that got me questioning. I sat in History of Western Civilizations learning about the Romans and the rise of Christianity in the West (and believe it or not, the teacher was actually pretty damned unbiased), and I went, "WTF????"

It was the staffs that got me. The teacher was just talking about the Roman politicians and how they did things (before Christianity even came ALONG), and mentioned that once upon a time Roman officials would carry staffs with crosses on the tops, to remind people of what would happen if they defied the state (crucifixion.) And a picture flashed in my mind of the Pope or a Pontiff with all of his pretty robes and funny hat, and that same damned staff, with the cross at the end. It gave me the heeby jeebies.

[copyright1983.livejournal.com]

This is very well written, and you have my vote.

However, as a born-again Christian, I obviously can't agree with what you say here. I agree that some churches do slide over into cult territory, but frankly, talking about the *church* misses the point. After all, it is a human institution, and as such is necessarily flawed.

To me, Christianity has never been about Christians, but about Christ. It's about the relationship you have with Jesus, not the religion you practice.

If you want to discuss this further, we can; if you don't, I understand. Just throwing it out there.

Best of luck in this week's vote.

Mike

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

Thank you, and thanks for the vote. However, I'd ask you to read it a little bit closer in some places. When I use the word "cult" I'm not referring to the Church, or even a PARTICULAR church, but rather a particular group that I was a part of within Christianity. I'm well aware that it's just one group within Christianity. Unfortunately there is obviously something within the religion that facilitates that.

I have to disagree with you about your thoughts on Christianity. Christianity IS about Christians, AND about Christ. It IS about your relationship with Jesus, AND your relationship with other people who have a relationship with him. Otherwise I don't think that you're really a Christian... you may be a "Christ follower", but you're not a part of the religion (and yes, Christianity IS a religion. One of the largest and most prominent in the western world, if not THE largest and most prominent.) Truly the religion that I left is ABOUT loving one another and bearing with and abiding with one another. To do that you have to be about other Christians too. Jesus said that the most important command was to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength", and then he said "the second is like it", or some translations read "The second is the same", which was "and love your neighbor as yourself." Then he said "This is how they'll know that you're my disciples... that you love one another."

So to follow his teachings I think that you have to allow yourself to embrace the fact that Christianity is very MUCH about other Christians... not as a distant second to being about Christ, but as a very, very, VERY close... not even second, more like 1.5th, to being about Christ.

The religion that you practice IS about your relationship with Jesus. And the beauty of religion is that no two people practice it the same way. One of the saddest things about Christianity to me is the very recent demonization of the word "religion". Religion is a beautiful thing, but I see a lot of Christians BLAME "religion" for the mistakes of the Church. I've seen "Religion" as its defined by many modern Christians used to cover their own personal mistakes and prejudices. I'm sorry, but I have much more respect for my Christian friends who DO take responsibility for their own mistakes and also allow for and have grace for the mistakes of other people without using "religion" as a scapegoat. Religion is ABOUT people, and PEOPLE, make mistakes. You've said as much yourself. But people are who Christ died for, are they not?

No, my problem with Christianity is by FAR NOT the people. My problem with modern Christianity (as I experienced it) is the Christian depiction of the Divine as a jealous, exclusivistic God. This has absolutely nothing to do with the people, and EVERYTHING to do with your (or my) relationship with God/Jesus. God/Jesus demands exclusive worship but refuses to make himself obvious as Maker and Creator of the Universe. As I outlined very clearly in my post, THAT is why I think that God is a sadist.

edit: I took out the last line of the original response because it struck me as harsh. I don't mean this response to be as such and I am glad that you felt like you could share your response here.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

lol, sorry, that was a post in and of itself, wasn't it?

I hope that my response doesn't come off as disrespectful... I've been warned that at times my responses to thoughts such as those you've shared can be harsh and offensive. I do respect your point of view, I just think you've misunderstood the point of my post.

Many blessings to you my friend, and I am glad that you shared your thoughts here. =)

edit: also my apologies if I've come off as defensive. I am a little bit on this topic, because I've been attacked quite a bit in regards to it and very personally. I do NOT, however, take your reply as an attack, and I hope that I haven't treated it as such.

[copyright1983.livejournal.com]

There's a lot to reply to in these comments, and I'm going to have to take some time to organize my response correctly. Thanks for clarifying your viewpoint; I do see that I misread a few things in the original post.

And no, you didn't really come across as disrespectful or defensive. Hopefully, when I get my response put together, I can avoid those same pitfalls.

Thanks again; I will respond to your first comment at some point.

Mike

[ckocher.livejournal.com]

I'm Pagan. When you boil it down, to me, that means I don't "believe" anything

I'm also pagan and I couldn't disagree more. :-) But I loved your writing and how you put forth your ideas. I very nearly wrote a piece on what Samhain is to me for this round but it just wasn't working for me.

My name is also Crystal. And I adore the L Word.

:-)

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

I s'pose the beauty of Paganism is that you couldn't disagree more and we're both still Pagan, lol. ;)

Yeah I guess it could be said that what I BELIEVE in, are possibilities. I do have beliefs... I believe that I don't understand the Universe but that a lot of people have done a lot of things and made a lot of sense out of things and it worked for them, and sometimes what they made sense out of works for me. I think that we put a lot of names on things and its how we deal with the Universe, but someone else's name for those things doesn't mean that we're necessarily dealing with completely different forces. We all have our energies and our way of dealing with the things we don't see or don't completely understand.

I LOVE Samhain. This is only my second year observing it but I think that it's beautiful. I DO believe that "the veil between the worlds is thin"... I can feel that in the air.

In other words I hope you do get around to writing that piece on Samhain. I'd love to read it. =)

And hehe on L Word. I'm actually watching season 4 on DVD now. =)