What the Hell Do You Believe?

[crysthewolf]

I'm Pagan.

I don't know quite when that happened, just that it happened.  At some point a while ago, I left behind Christianity and declared myself "AgnoPagan".  At some point I flitted through "Christopaganostic".  Now, it's just Pagan.

But what the hell does that mean?

For me, I suppose, it means that I don't have "faith", per-sey.  I HAVE faith in things in as much as anyone ever does... but it's faith with a solid evidence.  It's a faith in things that I can observe, things that I can see, things that I can make happen.  Have I seen prayers "work", as it were?  Sure, but I couldn't tell you WHY.  I've never seen a god or goddess.  I've seen people say things and do things and cause other things to happen.  I've seen other people pray and make themselves simply feel better.  

And I kinda wonder.. how much else really matters?

Rituals and spells FEEL as powerful to me as worship and prayer used to... and no one's asking me to give up my thoughts and my feelings and all of my decisions to them.  That's why I prefer this path.  Anyone who has judgments for that ought to take a look in the mirror at their own motives and leave mine alone, because at least I'm honest with myself.

At some point, I left behind my big beefs with Christianity.  Granted, there are still things that irk me that seem to be present in the "religious faithful", as it were.  The sense of moral and spiritual superiority is one.  The propensity toward martyrdom is another.  I had the politicization and the Roman influence.  But...

My point of view, is that if it makes you happy... it can't be that bad (yes, it's a Sheryl Crow song.  It's also my point of view.  Cope.)  If you act like an asshole, that's your responsibility.  You don't get to blame it on a devil or a god or a bad day... you CAN, but it's still your responsibility.  Just apologize and go on with life.  Hell, I'm an asshole sometimes and I blame it on my meds or hormones... but those are also things that I could physically show to you.  I'm also STILL responsible for the times when I'm an asshole.  *shrugs*  I try not to excuse that too much, because even with meds and hormones, I still make my own decisions.  Sometimes, I need to be sorry for that.  And sometimes, the people who get the brunt of it REALLY have it coming.

Sometimes it's difficult to sort out the difference.

If you bludgeon people with your beliefs or insult OTHERS' beliefs, it doesn't matter what religion you're part of, you're an asshole.

And because our country is majority Christian, Christians get permission to be assholes more than most.  Comparable to racism, if you think about it.  Religionism.

But, Religionism goes both ways. 

*sigh*  I have a lot of thoughts on possibilities, but they're just possibilities.  If I have a "belief", it's that a lot more things are POSSIBLE than we might realize.  But otherwise?  I don't take things on faith.  I don't attribute things I can't otherwise explain to an invisible creator in the sky (WHATEVER name you want to give to it) that I've never seen, never heard,  And if you want to tell me that I have to do that or I'm going to burn for eternity, I'm going to tell you that your deity is kindof an asshole.

*shrug*  But it's just an opinion.

I can't tell anyone that I know how the universe came to be any more than anyone else can.  I don't know how old it is.  All I know is that the shit I see thrown around at the question itself is ATROCIOUS, on ALL sides.  

And I'm Pagan.  Why?

Because I like stories.  Because rituals and spells make me feel something and I don't have to give up my intellect for it.  Because I don't know for sure that anything is or isn't true.  Because it makes sense to me.  Because I don't mind being called a "sampler" or having my "religion" be called a "buffet line" (even if those terms are typically used with malice.  It's the malice that's rude.  Doesn't matter if the terms are true.)  Because there are things about every religion, even Christianity, that I can appreciate, and because I can't hold a religion responsible for the people who are part of it, but I STILL can't accept the doctrines of Christianity as ultimate truth.  *shrugs*  Just because I can't.

Because I suppose I don't really believe that anyone KNOWS the "ultimate truth".  

I believe that judging people is stupid.  I believe that loving people is very, very good.  I believe that it's important to pull your head out of your ass but that it's ALSO important to take care of yourself.  I believe that if people tell you that all of your problems are your own fault and that, thus, you can somehow fix them with some magical cure of "repentance", they're naive at best and abusing you at worst.  I believe that forgiveness is conditional, but love doesn't have to be.  I believe that relationships have to have boundaries but that no one can tell you precisely what those boundaries should be except for the other people in that relationship.  And you ought to smack anyone who tries.

I believe that I can forgive people for the asanine things that they do if they can admit that they were asanine, but if they're just going to blame ME for them, there's no point in trying to have a relationship.  And I believe that there are people who are allergic to personal responsibility and that no one will ever have healthy relationships with them until they can get over it.

I believe that I'm not perfect, and that no one should simply spread forgiveness over me for it, but that people ought to think three times before passing judgment on my decisions... because they don't know me as well as they think they do.  I believe they DO have a right to tell me when I've hurt them, but they DON'T have a right to yell at me that I've hurt them and then run away and talk about what a terrible person I am for my own mistakes.

And I believe that I should do the same for others.  And I believe in being patient with people when they have a problem.

I believe that the only actions I have a right to judge in other people are the manner in which they treat ME.

But I believe that it's very important to judge those actions when I'm chosing my friends.

I don't believe in Yahweh.  I think Yeshua may have existed but I don't think that he's some jealous, angry deity's son.  I believe that it's entirely possible that if he DID exist he was crazy... but that sometimes, crazy people have some really interesting things to say.  

*shrug*

I believe that those ideas will probably change in the coming years, but most likely, not by much.  

I believe in freedom, love, and possibility.

Love,
Crystal

Comments

[defixione.livejournal.com]

As a fellow Pagan to a "n00b" ;P, I'd like to make a suggestion. You mention that some may consider our beliefs to be like a buffet line. There is a basis to this. Working with Gods in magic has often been put forth like that, especially in paths like Chaos Magick (but in all fairness they do that will beliefs in their totality). These accusations are most often levied against Eclectic Pagans. But it doesn't have to be this way.

My first piece of advice is to not just go from one deity to another. Cultivate relationships with as many of them as you wish, but remember to cultivate the relationships. A few minutes of your time is all that's needed.

Second, don't remain ignorant of the mythology. And when cultivating relationships with multiple deities, keep in mind that some don't work well with each other. For example, the thought of invoking Horus and Set in the same ritual makes me want to scream and run for the hills. I just picture myself in circle crying, "HIT THE DECK!!!!!"

As for Yeshua, what I find really intersting is the theory that the name is only a title. I'll have to describe the theory of it to you sometime soon.

[defixione.livejournal.com]

I'd like to append my first piece of advice by saying that I meant a few minutes of your time on a regular, at least once-a-week basis is all that's needed.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

Indeed!

And yes, I know what you mean about getting to know the mythology and the gods and goddesses. No matter what label you want to put on an energy or force, it's important to know, at the very least, what other people have learned about it before you start working with it.

[friendstephen.livejournal.com]

Back when you were calling yourself "Christopaganostic" I took that as "Crystopaganostic", as in "Crystal's pagan-influenced agnosticism". It's an unexamined assumption with me, and maybe a lot of people, that "agnostic" = "agnostic about the Semetic religions".

These days I'm feeling quite agnostic in the sense of not being able to find any spirituality at all. I still find the Christian religion to be the one that makes the most sense of any faith I've ever encountered, but I can't reconcile what I read in the Bible with what my Christian co-religionists do.

These days I'm not sure I believe in much of anything at all. Sometimes I believe myself, sometimes my friends, sometimes the future, and sometimes that the truth is "out there" (X-Files irony noted), but I have encountered nothing that I can make a permanent part of me upon which to build faith.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

To be honest, sometimes I think that that's the best way to deal with spirituality. Stay open-minded, but don't bother with things to "make a permanent part of your faith". There's too much uncertainty in spirituality to do that.

Just my opinion.

[(Anonymous)]

Define 'sense'?

In a dogma of the Creed sense, replete with dying resurrecting and people going to hell to three days?

Or something a lot less literalist?

For me, I'm a Batchelor Buddhist Agnostic with more Daoist overtones.

Mostly, the Christian (Abrahamic) meme seems to be an excuse to be an Ass (cf Robert, Moe and his whole tribe)as opposed to being 'someone "Good"' in the 'Perfect Day' Lou Reed sense.

R

[popfiend.livejournal.com]

You have seen this: http://popfiend.livejournal.com/1205434.html

Right?

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

*nods* yep. =) S'why I respect you. =P ;)

[popfiend.livejournal.com]

It's not much more complicated than that no matter what you believe.

I know on some level that the drumbeat of Christianity can makes some of this at the very least feel more difficult for you, but is it really out of line with the core of anyone's spiritual beliefs?

Or even if you take exception to that (general "you"), should it be?

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

No, very few people's beliefs ARE more complicated than that, and that's why they're respectable.

The only reason that I don't consider myself a Christian is because I identify a Christian as someone who believes that Jesus was "the Christ", the son of God, etc., and I don't believe that.

Similar to the reason that I don't call myself a Gardnerian Wiccan, or a Buddhist (even though I find a lot of wisdom in Buddhism). I don't buy that Gardner knew everything and while I can appreciate Buddhism, I don't practice the core practices of Buddhism enough to be able to say "I'm a Buddhist" with sufficient confidence.

If that makes sense. ;)

The only beliefs I have a problem with are the beliefs that some people have that they should meddle in one another's beliefs, or put one another down for their beliefs.

[confusedjew.livejournal.com]

i can't really sum up my faith. i know what it is and yes any advice or responses i have are generally colored by it as it is part of who i am.

still i don't, i least i try my damndest not to, judge those for what they do, how they do it or what they believe.

it takes work to follow my faith. i do it because it's worth it for me. my life is better when i follow and keep my faith. that's good enough for me. i don't need anyone else to accept, adopt or even know about it. it's my faith. it's nice to find those who share the same tenets but not necessary. not really.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

And in the end, what else would anyone be able to ask? ;)

[confusedjew.livejournal.com]

what is the air speed velocity of a laden swallow?

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

I'm going to hell.

[confusedjew.livejournal.com]

what? ok, i was going for the month python and the holy grail reference, not sure where that response comes from. normally i would get 'african or europpean?' not saying it's wrong just not traditional.

[crysthewolf.livejournal.com]

LOL, it was a joke. ;) I meant that if that's the question I have to answer for the sake of religion, then I'm going to go to hell. ;)

[confusedjew.livejournal.com]

ahhh. so two jokes. i see now. :)